So, my squad has 3 EE'sb at Oral Roberts. I was expecting 1 and had a plan in place. I will see what I can do to replace them for the next season.

Good luck.

Well I guess recruiting has already started.

#1 recruit overall signs immediately at the beginning of the 2nd period.

Going to try and dump all my AP to just see if I can even open up any type of recruit.

For the love of god, just get rid of EEs altogether...

I think the time for major changes has come and gone, budd.

Posted by gomiami1972 on 8/26/2016 9:59:00 AM (view original):
I think the time for major changes has come and gone, budd.

Unfortunately. I honestly feel bad for those D1 guys that have put in the time, effort and money to get to where they're at only to have this situation mostly ignored with a "we'll monitor it in the first few seasons" remark.

Posted by p6453 on 8/26/2016 11:29:00 AM (view original):

Posted by gomiami1972 on 8/26/2016 9:59:00 AM (view original):
I think the time for major changes has come and gone, budd.

Unfortunately. I honestly feel bad for those D1 guys that have put in the time, effort and money to get to where they're at only to have this situation mostly ignored with a "we'll monitor it in the first few seasons" remark.

Well with an A prestige and 3 EEs, I managed to unlock the #2 recruit (since the #1 recruit signed in the very first opening cycle), offer a schollie, put in 20 HVs and 1 CV to get to "Low". So yeah, EEs don't let compete at all for a replacement of decent value.

EE = take a walk on for next season if you are unfortunate to get one

Posted by p6453 on 8/26/2016 11:29:00 AM (view original):

Posted by gomiami1972 on 8/26/2016 9:59:00 AM (view original):
I think the time for major changes has come and gone, budd.

Unfortunately. I honestly feel bad for those D1 guys that have put in the time, effort and money to get to where they're at only to have this situation mostly ignored with a "we'll monitor it in the first few seasons" remark.

As usual it's WIS shooting themselves in the foot, they won't market this effectively because they've never marketed any of their products effectively. Look at what happened to Gridiron Dynasty when they did a total overhaul, my prediction is we get a similar result here.

I still attest that this goes beyond just EE's but teams getting hit with EE have more severe gripe.

The second cycle is a ticking time bomb and dumb luck determines whether you have a shot at signing someone who already has interest from schools at the start. Based on some players needing ~100 attention points to open up a scholarship offer this means you're waiting 3-5 cycles to even be able to start spending recruiting $. So 18-30 hours after the cycle begins you can actually use your $.

BUT if you guess unlucky and apply all 40 points available (example) to a guy that signs you have to restart the 18-30 hour cycle. This is now 3 seasons in a row I can't really spend $ on anyone decent at D1 level at the start of the 2nd cycle.

So not just EE's but anyone who swings and misses in recruiting gets crippled. Couple that with a cap on recruiting and the intent to level the playing field really limits catch up.

coaches changing schools have near equal gripe as EE's.

Ultimately even if EE's are elimated the issue still persists for new coaches and those who missed early in recruiting.

i think some combination of change needs to happen. I really have no issue with the first cycle at this point - possibly the caps but there are worse issues.

suggestions:

1 - more/new players added to second cycle. Maybe JC's come out at that point.
2 - put a 24 hour freeze on signings. Give coaches a chance to actually reach the point where they can safely use their attention points and actually use the recruiting dollars.
3 - move to 3 hour cycles for the 2nd window.
4 - open up or greatly relax effort needed to get to the above spots. To use the same time table to free up a player so late as you do early is frustrating. I know it opens up more in the last 24 hours but no quality D1 players are left at that point.

Ultimately we've swung too far towards persistent reward. I've always been a proponent of giving value to a coach long on a player but we're so restrictive now that recruiting just isn't as fun in this current set up.

Maybe I'm missing something here. If I were to be in a position where I might have an EE or two, why would I not prepare a couple of back-ups before the second session, just in case? Why would I ever let myself be put in a position of having to start from scratch in the second session to fill a roster position, unless I changed jobs? Anyone care to address this on its merits?

Posted by CoachSpud on 8/27/2016 12:27:00 AM (view original):
Maybe I'm missing something here. If I were to be in a position where I might have an EE or two, why would I not prepare a couple of back-ups before the second session, just in case? Why would I ever let myself be put in a position of having to start from scratch in the second session to fill a roster position, unless I changed jobs? Anyone care to address this on its merits?

Two words: "You would."
But that does not mean that this does not represent a serious problem at Div. 1.

1. 1st off every back up I prepare will cost attention points at the very least. For example let's say I have 1 opening and 3 likely early entries. I will have 20 attention points to use to fill my opening then when I open up the recruiting options on that one guy, I will have to use those 20 attention points to open up 3 more players to prepare for the likely early departure of those 3 ees. There is no way to do that therefore there is no way to "prepare backups" for 3 ees in that situation.

2. Those backups will have to be the players who intend to sign late of course. That means a much smaller pool of players will be available. This is clearly a disadvantage to only the best teams...teams which have recruited NBA quality players and according to seble, teams which have had more tournament success. How does that make any sense?

3. Attention points are the only measure we have to open up recruiting actions and It takes multiple cycles to open up the recruiting options for players.Once a player signs during the first cycle...poof no more attention points. If I sign a player right off the bat in the first cycle...I can no longer use attention points to "prepare backups". So what do I do? Attempt to not sign a player early?? Again a punishment to success has been added into the game.

The only way to fix this so late in the process seems to be the elimination of EEs imo. The alternative is a game which punishes it's most successful players...how foolish is that?

I wish we would either get rid of EES or else make all of the players declare at the beginning of recruiting and allocate resources then, or at least partial resources.

I'm aware the first 3.0 recruiting season is going to be a specific challenge for the handful of elite teams that have multiple EEs on the big board. But this looks like it's the new normal, and it's time to adjust.

The adjustment is to have more backup options. Nothing is stopping you from throwing 5-10 APs/cycle from the start at guys with a late preference that aren't your first choice, but who you could live with if you have to find a replacement for an EE. Spending all your APs on a player is the equivalent of all-in. That's a big gamble, and it's supposed to be. If you choose to go after the best of the best, you are playing a high-stakes game. If you can't tolerate that risk, find a different method.

I think I am beginning to understand.

Christmas is a wonderful holiday. It is so wonderful that only a few people get to enjoy it -- the rest have no Christmas.

But after Christmas I am sad and angry. I don't appreciate the fact that I had Christmas, and I am sad and angry that every day cannot be Christmas. I had Christmas once and therefore I am entitled to Christmas again. Maybe even again and again.

Therefore I propose two possible solutions to my "problem." (1) No more Christmas for anybody. (2) Give me Christmas every day of the year.

Yeah, I think I am beginning to understand.

“For example let's say I have 1 opening and 3 likely early entries.”
Maybe structuring your classes so that you only have one opening is the bad idea here, nothing to do with EE’s. Also, 3 likely EE’s in a single season appears to be a thing of the past, so it looks like this "problem" resolves itself without any further artificial, arbitrary action by Seble..

“This is clearly a disadvantage to only the best teams…”
The passing of an advantage (studs on your roster) is not a disadvantage, it is merely the passing of an advantage. BTW, this is an advantage available to only a select few teams, unless the field opens up in 3.0.

"That's a big gamble, and it's supposed to be. If you choose to go after the best of the best, you are playing a high-stakes game. If you can't tolerate that risk, find a different method."
Exactly. It looks like the D1 recruiting culture is necessarily changing, from piling on massive riches and untold dozens of HV's and CV's to one of strategizing carefully and avoiding the minefields (something D2/D3 coaches have always had to do since they never have had massive riches). All change involves some pain. That doesn't mean we avoid all change.

Posted by CoachSpud on 8/27/2016 11:51:00 AM (view original):
I think I am beginning to understand.

Christmas is a wonderful holiday. It is so wonderful that only a few people get to enjoy it -- the rest have no Christmas.

But after Christmas I am sad and angry. I don't appreciate the fact that I had Christmas, and I am sad and angry that every day cannot be Christmas. I had Christmas once and therefore I am entitled to Christmas again. Maybe even again and again.

Therefore I propose two possible solutions to my "problem." (1) No more Christmas for anybody. (2) Give me Christmas every day of the year.

Yeah, I think I am beginning to understand.

Oh phew. I saw a Spud post and I thought it wasn't going to be condescending. Great to see that I was wrong.